Long story short. Been in this house 5 years. When purchasing, dye test passed, no problems. My wife has been here 3 years. Just last summer we had our first backup into the basement (floor drains). Previous to that I noticed the filmy water around the septic tank area. I dug down, found the leech bed line....water all around it. I dug a small drainage ditch away from it and perforated the line with the shovel....old faithful geyser for a few minutes.... Basically, my leech bed failed....or so I thought. After more investigation, I found that my leech bed is about 30 feet long at best.....single line...obviously garage engineered. Specifics of my system: I have a 500gal tank....single unit..one building attached to the system. All lines from house go to septic including gray water.... We have a disposal but rarely use it...Two bathrooms, a super-efficient front-loader washing machine (at least now anyway), 1.6 gal toilet that gets used most of the time. My wife and I are the only ones here for now... Here is the problem I found.... At the end of the leech line was a rigged-up plug by the previous owner. They blocked the end of the line which used to be just a free-flowing pipe. I know they installed it because I found all of the same gravel they used on the other side of my shed....they basically rigged it up so the house would sell....probably had their fingers crossed for the dye test. I cant believe it actually worked this long! Bigger problem - my land borders a small lake. The land around this lake is owned by the US Army Corps of Engineers. My septic tank is about 1 foot from the line, and the leech bed leeches (if you will) onto their land.... I unplugged the line, and right now my system is leeching onto open ground.... It is on a large hill so the water doesnt stay surfaced long....but its nasty... What the heck should I do? I had a septic company come out - they said I could be looking at 30K or more...driveway has to be ripped out in that area, grinder pump, larger tank, holding tank, and new leech field somewhere else on my property (up hill from current location - hence the pump and holding tank)...that is only provided the soil passes perk test. Last option is treatment system..... Do i even have an option to fall back on the seller? It was not disclosed....or has it been too long? Am I looking at a massive investment, or could I possibly rig up a better leech system myself...or am I asking for legal issues later? No fun!! Thanks in advance for the help and for reading this! you will need to check with some one familiar with your state laws on disclosure, with the things you have described about the property i would go with a aerobic waste water system I believe it will be the less amount of maintenance in the long run vs the grinder and pumping up hill. life begins when the kids leave home and the dog dies If the sewage situation is not corrected ASAP, you could be looking at a hefty fine for dumping raw sewage into the environment. Have the system inspected. Don't go with an inspector who also sells and installs septic systems. Get at least two more quotes. A permit and inspection will be required for whatever new system you install. Septic Care: What is a Septic System? How Does a Septic System Work? Why Does a Septic System Fail? What are Signs of a Failing Septic System? It is doubtful that you can go back on the seller. The system worked when you purchased the home. As you say, Been in this house 5 years. When purchasing, dye test passed, no problems. Septic systems are designed to process biological waste. Adding gray water waste, such as from washer, to system can overburden the system. Lint from washer can cause system failure. If washer is used, it is recommended that laundry be spread out over several days so as not to overburden the system. In the meantime, go to the laundrymat. Driveway should never be placed over leach field. Pennsylvania Septage Management Association :: Septic Care Tips Thanks for the info! Beer 4U2 I am definitely concerned about being fined....this government land next to me is monitored heavily....I was once sent a certified letter warning me of encroachment on government land for mowing a path to the lake....sewage would most likely be followed up with a huge fine. I didnt think I would have anything to go back on....I still may look into disclosure laws here, but there is probably a statute of limitations. The big issue I have is that they built an illegal system themselves, and rigged it to pass the dye test...the soil must have been draining well because the leech area is definitely not to code. Just to clarify - the leech area itself is not under the driveway....but the pipes from the house to septic run under the driveway....and if the tank has to be moved, the driveway has to be torn up to access them and redirect them....our driveway is paved. My situation is a little more complicated because of the government owned property. My tank is shoved against it and the driveway and turnaround border the tank....so its in a mote surrounded by driveway and government land.... You might get lucky and find a company that will agree to just put in a proper leech field, but the septic business is a highly regulated business now and the county (or whoever inspects) would have to agree to their plans. No one here can help you with this since the states and localities are very different in their approaches to what is and isn't allowed. If you get caught by the Corps, they might also take an interest in exactly how you correct the situation and want approval rights as well. I'm not an attorney, but for $30,000, it might be worth a couple of hundred to have one find out about the lack of disclosure of defective plumbing. Will check into that.... no doubt there will be inspections form the county and corps - if a new leach field is installed, it will be have to be on their land....they may not even allow it, however maybe it can be grandfathered since my original system worked that way. nonetheless i am going to have to pull the trigger on this and head down that path unfortunately. i will also be checking into the disclosure. sad thing is that we have done many improvements on this house, and we are going to have a baby in about 6 months...we need to put on an addition....more $$.... a $30k septic improvement will push our investment ratio way past what we can get back out of the place..... i guess we dont have a choice. As much as I dislike those high maintenance, need to be inspected at least annually, expensive, complicated aerobic systems (a miniature treatment plant in a box), I agree with the posters that it will more than likely be your best way out. Depending on your state's laws, you may want, or be required, to take a class on run one. But if you can't put a leech field on your own property and you have to open yourself up to a Federal agency's whims, the aerobic system starts looking a lot better. If you have to involve the Corps, they could fine you while you are waiting for their approval and their approval was the only thing holding things up. All sorts of horror scenarios are possible. And don't assume if you get permission, that permission will stay forever. It could happen that Congress changes a law and bang, you are back to square one. Grandfathering really doesn't apply to much anymore. It's likely that your local authority will tell you what needs to be done, either directly or through the local septic installer. Mound systems are an alternative to aerobics, and you may be able to continue using your existing tank. The mound can be located uphill, farther from the lake than the leach field. Septic tank inspections that would let a buyer actually know the system's condition are very difficult to do properly. Good luck! Today is the age of alternative. Instead of sticking with age-old septic systems, why not look at alternatvie systems. I dont mean an outhouse, but what about compost toilets. There are some that exist that arent outhouse style (aquatron- swedish design) that will take waste and compost it, and then your liquids can go on to your existing septic or you can use them for greywater if you treat it! Can be a bit tricky getting past code, but consider the benefits of not dealing with leach fields plus the thousands of dollars you invest in maintaining the failure systems. environmentally friendly and economically friendly... Installed correctly and used correctly the traditional septic system goes on for years. (20 - 30)It requires no more than to use it as intended for things you have already eaten and drank. When you start to use it as a rubbish tip, then you will have problems.
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to spray the whole house with, Raid Max, Orth home defense max, Specicide? for cockroaches,spiders,silverfish I’ll give some active ingredients that I like; look on the label for the following at “active ingredients” as I don’t know what is in each product that you listed. All crawling insects including roaches: cyfluthrin; deltamethrin; lambda-cyhalothrin; All crawling insects, but not so much for roaches: bi-fenthrin; those chemicals for the roaches is one any better then the other or they are all equal? Originally Posted by PAbugman I’ll give some active ingredients that I like; look on the label for the following at “active ingredients” as I don’t know what is in each product that you listed. All crawling insects including roaches: cyfluthrin; deltamethrin; lambda-cyhalothrin; All crawling insects, but not so much for roaches: bi-fenthrin; I’d prefer cyfluthrin over the other two; then Lambda-cyhalothrin, then deltamethrin. The big box stores carry the concentrates and the “ready to use” products, at least here in Pa. I use Raid Max about twice a year for spiders and waterbugs. It works great. I think Raid Max is Cyfluthrin-is that right?
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Ive been looking to make a 50ft 230v extension cord for my MIG machine but after pricing 8-3 rubber cord I realized it cost over $17 a meter (over $5 a foot). This seems unbelievably expensive considering 50ft is going to run me about $300 once everything is considered. This cant be right because ive seen 50ft welder extension cable online for half that cost, but Id like to make my own because I can't find a store close to home. Any advice would be great. Thanks What is the input power requirement for the MIG? The cost of copper is WAY up these days - some incidents of robbers holding construction workers at gunpoint while they make off with copper tubing and wiring. A 30-amp, single-phase, 220 volt device, such as a clothes dryer can be run from 10-3 with ground. Welding lead cable is not the same as power cable and one should not be substituted for the other. Arc welding cable typically carries no more than 80-90 volts at high amperage. The insulation on it is consistent with that voltage level. There would be safety issues when the voltage is nearly triple the design point. I dont know if this explains much but the welder i am using is a MIG-PAK 15 230v single phase requiring at least 22 amps. It has a maximum output of 33 volts and the amperage range is 30-175 amps. If I missed any info you need im sure i can get it for you. Will 50' of 10-3 be enough or will it limit the capabilty of the machine? If it will that would be a huge relief since I believe 10-3 is much cheaper. Thx If it will run a dryer circuit, it should be able to handle up to 30 amps at 220 volts single phase AC. Most 10 guage copper is solid wire, not intended to be flexed and certainly the insulation is not intended to be dragged or moved around. You probably already have a welder receptacle. Got a 220 volt 30 amp circuit breaker pair? Originally Posted by thePlumber I dont know if this explains much but the welder i am using is a MIG-PAK 15 230v single phase requiring at least 22 amps. It has a maximum output of 33 volts and the amperage range is 30-175 amps. If I missed any info you need im sure i can get it for you. Will 50' of 10-3 be enough or will it limit the capabilty of the machine? If it will that would be a huge relief since I believe 10-3 is much cheaper. Thx Do yo speak of 10-3 NM cable? If so, NM is not acceptable as an extension cord. If not, what type of cable are you refferring to? Im talking about SOW Rubber cord, I dont have a welder receptacle I was planing on making an adapter for a dryer recept. Would 50ft of 10-3 SOW handle the load of a 30a welder or will I need 8-3? Im not really concerned with ruggedness, just load and the distance (50ft or 17m). I assume if you need an adapter to plug your welder into a 30 amp plug in that you have a typical 50 amp welder. IMO you shouldn't run it on either 10-3 or a dryer outlet. Why not install a 50 amp circuit in the area you plan to use the welder? It isn't all that difficult to add the proper circuit, especially once you have figured out how/where to run the wire. The welder is 30a not 50a, sorry for the mix up. I am looking to make an extension cord for my 30a 230v MIG machine and have been getting conflicting advice. It needs to be 50ft or 16m long and I hope to plug it into my dryer receptacle (230v, 30a plug, 40a breaker). I have been told by some that I need 8-3 SOW extension cord and by others that claim to have tried this say I can use 10-3 SOW. Which is correct? 8-3 SOW will run me about $17 a metre (depressing) and obviously if I can get away with 10-3 I would much rather do that. Here are the MIG machine specs straight from the manual if it helps INPUT - Single Phase Only Volts/Freq: 230v/60hz Input Current: 20a - rated output Rated Output (230v Input) Duty Cycle: 30% Amps: 130 Volts: 20 Output Range Welding Current Range: Dc output - 30 -175 amps Maximum Open Circuit Voltage: 33 Recommended Input Cable Fuse Sizes at Rated Output Fuse Size: 40a Input Amps: 20 Power cord: 50a, 250v three prong plug (NEMA type 6-50P) Input Supply Conductor: (Copper, type 75*C wire in conduit) 8 AWG Ground Wire Conductor: (Copper, type 75*C wire in conduit) 10 AWG also if it helps the machine came from the factory with a 12-3, 8ft power cord installed just found this posted in another forum: Author: MAC702 WeldingWeb Foreman 99 is correct: Lincoln's manual does indeed say to use #8. Yet, the Miller manual for the SAME CLASS machine says #14!! Now, as an experienced industrial/commercial/residential electrician I can see that Lincoln is going WAY overkill by assuming a 50A circuit at 100% duty cycle, which the NEMA 6-50 hardware is capable of. The machine itself can be powered by #14 up to 67 feet, like the Miller manual recommends. The Miller manual is using the derating factors available to welding machines. The Lincoln manual is using the maximum ampacity of the plug. They went completely different directions from normal 30A residential circuitry. I've always hated the lack of information provided by owners' manuals in this area, but this was especially weird. So, in short, #14 will work up to 67 feet to meet minimum NEC Codes that apply to welding machines. #10 will meet ampacity requirements of a 100% duty cycle machine, something to which your machine could never come close. #12 is where I make a compromise as it provides more than the minimum and at GREAT cost savings over #10. The only excuse for a #8 recommendation is CYA. Now, the wiring in the wall I would make #10, as the cost savings here are not nearly so great as they are with extension cords, and you never have to deal with the extra weight, size, and coiling resistance anyway. hope this helps the next guy Originally Posted by thePlumber Im talking about SOW Rubber cord, I dont have a welder receptacle I was planing on making an adapter for a dryer recept. Would 50ft of 10-3 SOW handle the load of a 30a welder or will I need 8-3? Im not really concerned with ruggedness, just load and the distance (50ft or 17m). The posts that followed mine explained things quite well. One thing. You can use s J ow cord as well. The J means it is rated for 300 volts instead of the 600 of s O cord. SJ should be a little less expensive than SO cord. Thanks nap i'll keep my eyes out for the 300v sjow cord. I think im finally on the right track! lol
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It's time to replace my GE water softener. I'd like to hear some opinions on what is the very best water softener brand/model that fits in the typical size of the GE / Kenmore models? I only have that much space. I don't have space for those fancy units that come with separate tanks. Whats wrong with your current unit? Its probably somewhat cheaper to repair if you DIY. Not backwashing, or using salt? Did you do a hardness test? City or well water? If resin is bad, replace the resin. $90 bucks for that unit. If you need parts check here. This guy is great IMO. Here is all the parts for your unit. Your unit is the same as Kenmores, and morton salt softners. You may just need a gasket set, new veturi gasket, float, or resin. It depend on what the issue is. Softenerparts.com Sears,GE, Other Brands You will get alot of opinions here on what is best. I have and always had the Kenmores. Easy to work on if they fail. Not alot of parts. I never had a issue. Some say they are junk, but dont offer why. I would steer you towards the Sears because the stores are everywhere. (Service) GE subs out for service now I think. Whats your water test show? Mike NJ Originally Posted by lawrosa Whats wrong with your current unit? Its probably somewhat cheaper to repair if you DIY. I want to replace it with a 45,000+ grain unit because we have a lot more people living in our 3,200 sq ft house now, and the current 30,000 grain model is too low capacity. Sometimes I can tell when the hard water breaks through when we use a lot of water. Also I would like one that has the low salt indicator light and reminder beep, because I always have to guess when the salt is low (my current model doesn't have any indicator). I am wondering, for example, between the top of the line models of GE, Kenmore, and Whirlpool .. which one is more reliable and has more advanced features .. and if there is some other brand I should consider as well that has the single tank size. Originally Posted by flyingpolarbear I want to replace it with a 45,000+ grain unit because we have a lot more people living in our 3,200 sq ft house now, and the current 30,000 grain model is too low capacity. Sometimes I can tell when the hard water breaks through when we use a lot of water. Also I would like one that has the low salt indicator light and reminder beep, because I always have to guess when the salt is low (my current model doesn't have any indicator). I am wondering, for example, between the top of the line models of GE, Kenmore, and Whirlpool .. which one is more reliable and has more advanced features .. and if there is some other brand I should consider as well that has the single tank size. Low salt indicator light.. one of the worst things yet for a softener. Half the time they work and the other half of the time while they work it is not always correct. Does one wait til the check engine light comes on before doing things for the truck or car? Look at the room and one will most likely find away of working the system that has both a brine tank and the main unit, they do not have to be side by side. You can spend money every few years and break the back getting the old Sears/Kenmore/GE/PolarStar unit out of where it is and fill the land fill or do it right and not have the challenge later down the road. All four have the same control... just laid out a bit different, they All have the same valve, the only thing that changes is the outside brine tank. They all have the same 5 year warranty IF you pay extra for it......and they all let you or a buddy put it in for a case of adult brew..... They sell them cheap because they get them CHEAP to start. City water or Well water? What was the water test? Iron ... Hardness... Number of people in house ? Sometimes I can tell when the hard water breaks through when we use a lot of water. Read this first Metered Water Softeners, Twin Tank Water Softeners, and water treatment technologies Going to a 45k grain from a 32K grain is not going to change a thing except how often it backwashes. 45k is for 20 plus grains hardness and 5 plus people. ( Which you may have.) The units measure the water you use and calculate to leave enough soft water until backwash. Sometimes I can tell when the hard water breaks through when we use a lot of water. This would make me think the settings are not correct. But all in all it may seem you have made up your mind to get a new unit. Akpsdvan makes a good point with the low salt alarm. But again it leads me to believe you may be using alot of salt, and your settings are not correct. Most are against me on the Sears/Kenmore/GE, but I used the Kenmores and never had any issues. I fail to see what some see the issues are with them. These are all the same. Morton System Saver Water Softeners Water Treatment Systems Products from GE Appliances http://ecowater.com/interestedsystem.php Here is the company that makes all of the above units. Northstar Water Treatment Systems Mike NJ Originally Posted by Akpsdvan Low salt indicator light.. one of the worst things yet for a softener. Half the time they work and the other half of the time while they work it is not always correct. My Kenmore unit before the GE had a low salt indicator light and the light was quite useful and accurate enough. Is there a certain brand that tends to have indicator lights that are less accurate? So if I understand what you're sayin, are the only good units the one that have separate tanks? The only good single tank unit is one with a Fleck valve. GE/Whirlpool/Sears are all made by the same company ECOWater. The problem is I have not seen a single tank with a Fleck valve bigger than 32K. If I made space for a double tank unit with a Fleck valve.. besides being more reliable, what would that give me functionally? Better flow rate? Fit more salt into the tank? (filling up less often would be nice) Advanced microprocessor user display? Low salt indicator? (only on ECOWater units?) Fit more salt into the tank? (filling up less often would be nice) Again it may seem your settings may be off. Your softner may be fine. The people trying to help you here need some info before anything can be suggested. You have not given any info yet. With a bigger unit you will use more salt per re gen. I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish with the info you have given IMO. They have a 64K unit. That may have you backwash every two months.......... Good? No. You will probably get channeling. The unit should backwash once a week or 10 days max. But if you think you need it. 64K Metered Water Softener*WS1LM Microprecessor Metered Softener from CAI Technologies Go two tanks you can get a 96K. Better? 96K Metered Water Softener*WS5M-HC Microprocessor Metered Softener from CAI Technologies Hers the cabinet fleck. Only 32K Softenerparts.com Cabinet Enclosed Fleck 5600 Econominder 32K Softener City water or Well water? What was the water test? Iron ... Hardness... Number of people in house ? I will let the other water gurus take over from here. Mike NJ Originally Posted by lawrosa Again it may seem your settings may be off. Your softner may be fine. The people trying to help you here need some info before anything can be suggested. You have not given any info yet. With a bigger unit you will use more salt per re gen. I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish with the info you have given IMO. They have a 64K unit. That may have you backwash every two months.......... Good? No. You will probably get channeling. The unit should backwash once a week or 10 days max. But if you think you need it. 64K Metered Water Softener*WS1LM Microprecessor Metered Softener from CAI Technologies Go two tanks you can get a 96K. Better? 96K Metered Water Softener*WS5M-HC Microprocessor Metered Softener from CAI Technologies Hers the cabinet fleck. Only 32K Softenerparts.com Cabinet Enclosed Fleck 5600 Econominder 32K Softener City water or Well water? What was the water test? Iron ... Hardness... Number of people in house ? I will let the other water gurus take over from here. Mike NJ Excellent info Mike! One of my top priorities is not having to fill up with bags of salt too often. If the higher capacity units use a lot more salt during regeneration, then maybe I should stick with my existing unit despite the occasional hard water break through. Answer the following City water or Well water? What was the water test? Iron ... Hardness... Number of people in house ? And the size of the right unit can be figured out.... other wise if we through enough mud on the wall maybe some thing will stick. Originally Posted by Akpsdvan Answer the following City water or Well water? What was the water test? Iron ... Hardness... Number of people in house ? And the size of the right unit can be figured out.... other wise if we through enough mud on the wall maybe some thing will stick. - City water - Hardness 15-24 grains/gal (18 avg) - Hardness total as CaCO3 261-409 ppm (309 avg) - Iron unknown (probably low, haven't had issues with it) - 5 people in house and sometimes a lot more with guests, 3200 sq ft, 4 bathrooms I set the softener to 22 where it seems to work best. When I set the softener lower I seemed to have more frequent occasions of hard water break through during heavy usage periods. I would be running on the 24 hardness, if the city does less great, but going lower runs the chance of untreated water or running short more often. If the 5 are going to be in the house for the next 10 years and you are going to have large numbers of people often then you might think of a twin system, less likely to let untreated water by and better usage of salt with the number of people within the house for the next 10 years. A system with two separate tanks does not take up that much more space than a cabinet model. It all depends on the size of the salt tank. If you go with a fleck (5600 or 2510 SXT) metered valve and 45k capacity it can be set at 15# salt and 1500 gallons. Depending on usage this will give you about 5-7 days between regenerations and prevent hard water breakthrough. An 18x33 salt tank will have almost 300#'s of salt capacity. Use either Dura Cube or Hardi Cube salt to prevent bridging. This system will last 20+ years and can be rebuilt at any time to extend lifespan. RJ Is it possible to put a softener there and the brine drum in a remote location, say about 15 feet away? Below or above? Do you have pictures of the location? Sometimes problems are easier to solve with more information. What is the chlorine level? At that hardness, a small twin-tank system would work perfectly. One that Kinetico has only uses 18 in diameter and is suited for up to 45 grains. A twin tank would assure you of consistent treated water, very long warranty and using only slightly more space that the GE unit. There are systems that put larger single-tank softeners inside the brine tank but yoiu may still have some of the issues you are trying to avoid. I was about to ask a similar question as polarbear here and stumbled across this thread in searching before I posted. I think I've done quite a bit more research so I can, hopefully, answer some of polar bear's questions and maybe one of you can answer mine. Is channeling only a concern if the resin isn't regenerated frequently enough? For example, if I have a calendar override set to 11 days, does this resolve all concerns about channeling (waste efficiencies aside)? Polarbear: It looks to me like some people here are giving you some slightly misguided information. First, I would say that a bigger water softener will not waste salt as some here have suggested. From what I've read (and I admit to not being an expert but I am pretty smart and have done my reading) larger units allow greater salt efficiency by using lower salt dosage rates (to a point). To big a unit and channeling and excessive time between regenerations becomes a problem. Most of the calculators I've seen seem to seriously underestimate the appropriate size softener. The 45k size some here are recommending would only work with the maximum salt dosage which is bad for the environment (inefficient with salt) and bad for your wallet (salt costs money). Buying a bigger unit is only marginally more expensive anyhow and this would leave you room should you add another member to the family or another bathroom to the house. Here's my understanding of salt use efficiency: Periodically you have to regenerate the media in the softener so that it will continue removing hardness ions. This is done with a salt bath. You can use a more or less concentrated salt solution - this is your salt dosage. Dosages range from 6 pounds per cubic foot of media on the low end to 15 pounds of salt per cubic foot of media on the high end. ***Here's the point, more concentrated solutions get you more regenerative effect but with *diminishing returns*. So, going from 6 to 9 lb dosage gets you more softening power (capacity to remove grains of hardness) but the increase from 9 to 13 is smaller and from 13 to 15 is smaller still. So, if you can get away with a 6 lb dosage that would be ideal. Here's the catch though, with a low dose of salt your supposedly 32k grain softener isn't capable of removing all 32k grains. That capacity, as quoted, is usually with a much higher salt dosage - say 15lbs. So the 32k or 48k capacity rating is *really* misleading. Looking at the cubic feet of media is a better indicator because that is an absolute value rather than the other grain measurement which will be relative to your salt dosage. At a 6 lb dosage your 32k grain system (probably 1 cubic foot of media) will only remove 21k of hardness (See chart here Guidelines for Water Softener Design ). Now, if you take your undersized softener and attempt to low dose it then you end up with more frequent regenerations which is hard on the softener and media and wastes lots of water. But, if you buy an appropriately sized one in the first place then you're golden. There's also the issue of service flow rate where if you exceed the rating you'll be drawing hard water through the softener (the water flows through to fast to be fully softened). I figured any modestly sized good quality system with a good valve (i.e. a fleck unit) would flow more than my house could use. Boy was I wrong. I've got a newer house with 3/4 fittings. I tested how long it takes to fill a gallon bucket in the bath tub (a good place to see the max your plumbing can flow) and came up with 12-15 gallons per minute on repeated tests. With a house as big as yours I'll bet you're at that flow rate or better (imagine if all the fixtures and the washing machine were running at once). Surprisingly, I have to have a pretty big softener to meet my flow requirements (and by big I mean a lot of resin - 2 cubic feet - the SFR is a function of tank/resin bed size and valve flow). So there's another reason why a smaller unit is a bad idea - exceed the service flow rate and you get hard water leakage. With all this in mind, my calculations based on what you've told us are as follows: 24grains (use the upper end of the range) 5 people 75 gal per day on average. FYI, I looked at my water report and in the months I wasn't using my sprinklers I was averaging a whopping 300+ gallons per day for my wife, myself, and my 2yr old daughter. My wife likes baths, go figure. Anyhow, word to the wise, don't use 75 average, look at your own water usage and figure it out. So that's 24*5*75 = 9000 grains of hardness per day. Now you don't' want that system regenerating every day because it's hard on the system and wasteful with water. So let's shoot for every 7 days.. so we multiply the daily need by 7… 9000*7=63000 grain capacity needed. But wait, you don't just buy a 64k grain system and quit.. remember what I said earlier about salt dosage rates? That 64k grain system isn't really that big. Looking back at the table (Guidelines for Water Softener Design ) we can see that 3 cubic feet of resin at 6 lb salt dosage gets us 63,000 grain capacity. That'll do just fine. So, 3 cubic feet of resin is actually rated as about a 95k grain unit. You could probably get away with 2.5 cubic foot of resin though which would be an 80k grain unit. I would definitely not go smaller than that. To answer your question about brands it looks to me like many brands are hype and several are just different badges on the same underlying product. Kinetico is gimmicky, there's no need for a twin tank system in a residence unless people are using water 24 hours a day. The the water driven stuff screams gimmick to me too. The sears, kenmore, ge, stuff is all lowend junk. It's like the craftsmen or murray or lawn mowers when what you want is a snapper. I say fleck all the way. That's what I'll be ordering in the coming days. It's simple to work on so you can DIY or many plumbers will do it. With many of the other systems (incl. kinetico or culligan) you're tied to their rep in the area and I'm sure he'll rape you good on parts and labor. Parts for fleck are inexpensive because it's a tried and true design that's been around so long and it's non-proprietary. Here's the real kicker - a high end fleck isn't really much more expensive then the crap sold at the big box stores but it should be much more reliable and user friendly esp. for the DIY type. You'd need the 7000 series fleck valve for the capacities I've suggested here and those can be had from multiple internet vendors (everything included) for the $800 range. BTW stay away from the vortech tanks. They sound nice but I've read bad things about them from experts elsewhere. As a follow up, I found this discussion of, mainly, commercial applications Water Softeners Product Supply and Water Softener Spares from Industrial Water Equipment Ltd They recommend a minimum of 3 gal per minute of flow per sq ft of bed area (I guess height/depth is irrelevant). On a 64k grain capacity fleck unit the resin tank is 12 wide. This gets a bed area .785 sq ft (area of a circle is pi * radius (.5) squared or 3.14*.5^2). .785*3 gal per minute is 2.36 gal per minute of minimum flow. On the one hand I know the unit easily surpasses this at maximum output (i.e. filling up the tub). On the other hand it may or may not surpass it for other uses such as the kitchen sink or even the (lo-flo) shower head. So how do I interpret this? At what point to I risk channeling? I firmly believe that bigger is better, at least to a point, but to what point precisely? My math in the previous post is correct and I stand by it unless, of course, such a setup would risk channeling. Thoughts? Thank you Will for doing your homework. I find it upsetting that people on here and that I run into in daily life think that just because the softener is twice the size that it needs twice that salt to clean it. It is just not true. I work on units with 1-1/2cuft of resin that use 8lbs of salt per regen just as good as the older 3/4cuft units do. It's all about efficiently getting it through the bed. Also, contact time with the resin. On the channeling side, well, I've never ran into a unit that had channeling. Maybe a unit that hasn't been hooked up in a year or years, but never one in service. Thanks WillH, Most of the water guys on this site pretty much know the info you posted. Its water softner 101. If you frequent some of the main softning sites you may have saved some time by posting links. Most of the guys know this site, and there are a few more like it. I think all the water guys knows this site: Metered Water Softeners, Twin Tank Water Softeners, and water treatment technologies If you dont have 1 main you probably will not see the benefit of a higher capacity system. And the water powered units are a great option for people with frequent power outages. Selecting the Best Water Softeners - Water Softener Systems Explained Size a softner. Look at the salt consumption. You still want the softer to regen every 5 -10 days but I say 7 days is a good rule of thumb. My hardness is 7gpg. 32,000grains. If I leave the seting on 7 it may take a month for the unit to regen. I bumped it up to 20 and get 5-8 days between regen. ( I am oversized ) Metered Water Softeners, and water treatment technologies You also did not mention additional minerals that may be in the water. High iron the unit needs more backwashing = more salt, etc... Chlorine? Replace 2 cft of resin every 5-8 yrs. $350 just for 2cft of quality resin. Not the compatable stuff. Twin Tank Water Softeners, and water treatment technologies Anyway if you sizing a softner because of GPM and you want to be able to run 4 showers, the wash, dish washer, at the same time and still retain capacity, your missing the boat. I would say read somemore about salt use, capacitys, other minerals in the water, flow rates and what they mean, I would say 75% of people oversize thier softners. Here is another good site. Water Softener Selection Calculator - Pick the Best Water Softener - Removing Iron - Potassium Mike NJ I would have to agree WillH. Sizing your water treatment system for flow rates is a critical factor in the overall application of any water treatment application. As the original poster noted, (during periods of heavy usage they can have hard water). This can be caused by several factors, one of them being peak flow rates being exceeded for the softening system. Consequently hardness bleed occurs. Channeling occurs when flow rates through the resin bed are too low, such as a dripping faucet or leaking toilet. The incoming water pressure also factors into sizing of the system. 20psi pressure is too low to regenerate a 1.5 to 2+ cu ft softener, where as 100psi is too high. Flow rates are also a factor of the plumbing. A 3/4 line can only supply 15gpm no matter the pressure. The height, distance and bends that water travels also effect gpm and pressure. Sizing a 2 cu ft softener for this application using the 9000 grains required per day. A 2 cu ft softener will supply 16+ gpm so our flow rates are met. 60k capacity - 20% reserve = 48k capacity 48k/9000=5.3 days between regeneration. At 3000 grains per lb of salt efficiency 16lbs of salt is required for regeneration. 96 lbs of salt per month used with water usage efficiency. GE, Sears, Northstar, Ecowater are made by EcoDyne Corp. I am not a fan of rotary type valves such as EcoDyne and Erie, too many service related issues. A low salt alarm can be added to any water treatment system, some customers really like them. It never ceases to amaze me how complicated these discussions can become. Do they really serve to help the customer or just add to the confusion and frustration level for the customer. It's as bad as asking three Doctors their opinions. WillH has done his homework, that's rare, I congratulate you. If you are contributing to the discussion, have not done your home work and are not a water treatment professional than you may want to consider if you are adding to the confusion and the angst. RJ @lawrosa I agree, most of the pros here probably know and do these sorts of calculations everyday. But I posted the info because our friend polarbear didn't know and was leaning towards a unit that, IMO, is undersized. I also agree that there are other factors to consider such as iron content but that wasn't exactly on the table for discussion because polarbear has told us he's on city water which, I'm told, has little or no iron content. As to the chlorine issue, if you're implying that a smaller unit is better because it will be cheaper to replace the resin when the chlorine ruins it in a few years then, yes, I'll have to agree. But it won't be much cheaper and this alone is certainly not a valid reason to undersize the unit. Bottom line, a quality unit shouldn't be much more expensive then the big box stuff and a larger unit is only marginally more expensive then a smaller unit (maybe $150 at most). Plus a larger unit is more efficient and provides room for expansion and probably won't suffer hardness leakage when water usage is high. I fail to see any valid reason for a smaller or undersized unit in this application. As to your unit being oversized, I couldn't say without more info but in looking at every calculator I've found on the web and then figuring out do calculations myself I've come to the impression that the calculators tend to grossly undersize units because they do not consider the fact that softener capacity is routinely overrated in the industry. 42k grain units really aren't that big unless you're running it at the max salt dose. This is grossly inefficient with the salt and expensive, especially if you're using potassium salts. Really a medium (i.e. 9lbs) or lower dose is appropriate and efficient but unfortunately the industry always reports capacities that are the theoretical maximum under max salt dosage. As to your solution about your unit being oversized, my impression (and again I admit to not being an expert) is that there is a better solution. Rather than increase the hardness setting on the unit (which would tell a metered unit to regenerate more often then it has to) you should just lower the salt dose. If you're already at 6lbs then you probably shouldn't go much lower. But if you're dosing it higher than that (like 12 or 15 lbs) then simply reducing the dosage will make your unit more efficient and it will keep the regen cycles more frequent. It's certainly a better solution then simply upping the hardness setting. Would this fix your problem? I don't know with out knowing the specifics of your system and water quality (and even then I'm not sure). But I think it's sound advice worth considering. edited to say: I wanted to add that the size calculator you linked to at the bottom of your post is probably the closest to accurate that I've seen yet. For my application at least it does tend to underestimate the water flow in my plumbing but it's size recommendation isn't too terrible. It recommends 40k unit which is 1.25 cu ft of media... I would like to be somewhere between 1.5 and 2 cu ft (which I don't think exists) so it's only 1 or maybe 2 sizes to small which is better than most. As to the chlorine issue, if you're implying I dont imply.... I've come to the impression that the calculators tend to grossly undersize units because they do not consider the fact that softener capacity is routinely overrated in the industry. Are you implying????? If I was to imply I would say the opposite. unfortunately the industry always reports capacities that are the theoretical maximum under max salt dosage. add on real water usage?? Those #,s are always higher hence oversizing. Everyone do a test. When your softner is ready to backwash, dont let it. See how long you can go until the water becomes hard. You will be suprised. ( All you water guys should have a hardness kit, and please dont tell me you use strips.) As to your solution about your unit being oversized, my impression (and again I admit to not being an expert) is that there is a better solution. Are you implying? I have a kenmore, and always had them never an issue. I cant adjust my salt level but have it on a salt saving feature. Its says this. A new feature in this model is Salt Efficiency. When this feature is ON, the unit will operate at salt efficiencies of 4000 grains of hardness per pound of salt or higher. I would like to be somewhere between 1.5 and 2 cu ft (which I don't think exists) so it's only 1 or maybe 2 sizes to small which is better than most. Will, you can get dual tanks with 1.5 cft each. Do you have 1 1/4 plumbing? 96K Metered Water Softener*WS5M-HC Microprocessor Metered Softener from CAI Technologies Will this help your issue? Mike NJ. Sounds to me like WillH has you backed into a corner Lawrosa. Good stuff WillH! The point you made about brine efficiency when salt dose is lowered is true but keep in mind the amount of water that's wasted as a result of more frequent regenerations. Consider this: 2 cu ft metered softener 1. 9#s of salt at 3000 grains per pound will provide 27000k/9000 = 3 days. That's 1095#s of salt per year and 23,116 gallons of water per year. 2. At 16#s of salt it's 48000k/9000 = 5 days. That's 1168#s of salt and 13,870 gallons of water per year. Only 73#s more of salt used and 9,200 less gallons of water. RJ @lawrosa I didn't mean to inflame your sensitivities. It wasn't my intent to be hostile but merely to correct some of the suggestions floating around in this thread. I do this because misinformation abounds regarding water softeners. Earlier this year I had the misfortune of a salesmen coming into my house to do a water test whereupon he attempted to sell me a $3500 ge water softener with a kdf filter. I *almost* bought it but decided to do some checking first. I think I've become pretty knowledgeable for and end user as a result. This, of course, doesn't mean that I know everything - I freely admit that. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is please don't let this become a contest to show off who knows more or who can give better advice. As to you apparent fixation on what I did or did not imply what I said was that my impression was x. I wasn't implying anything but plainly expressing the conclusion I had reached. Nowhere did I imply anything, but I did and do openly admit to not being an expert but an end user. Heck, I don't even have the fleck unit yet so I can't even begin to tell you set it up or even install it and that's the truth. But I think I can give good advice as to size the softener. And I only asked why you mention the fact that chlorine is bad for resin and the price of 2 cu ft of resin. I was merely wondering why that was relevant to our sizing discussion if not to show that a bigger softener will cost more when it comes time to replace the resin (that's why I said you implied because you didn't explain why that was relevant, I had to infer it from what you wrote). I wasn't sure if maybe you knew something I didn't, that's why I asked. Please don't take it as a personal attack. Maybe we need to have a beer together Originally Posted by RJh2o The point you made about brine efficiency when salt dose is lowered is true but keep in mind the amount of water that's wasted as a result of more frequent regenerations. Consider this: 2 cu ft metered softener 1. 9#s of salt at 3000 grains per pound will provide 27000k/9000 = 3 days. That's 1095#s of salt per year and 23,116 gallons of water per year. 2. At 16#s of salt it's 48000k/9000 = 5 days. That's 1168#s of salt and 13,870 gallons of water per year. Only 73#s more of salt used and 9,200 less gallons of water. RJ That's an excellent comparison and precisely the sort of thing I'm trying to do. If you don't mind me asking, where are you getting the numbers to arrive at these results? I'd like to do a spreadsheet or something but I can't find any of the raw numbers or equations you'd use to figure out salt and water efficiency. That really is the heart of the matter when you talk about efficiency. You have salt usage which is expensive and bad for the environment (well maybe - my parents had their softener dumping into their ditch for 20+ years and the plants still grew in the ditch). On the other hand you have water usage which costs money and is a drain on natural resources. Efficiency would been balancing both of these for an optimal solution. So, please give me an algebra lesson and show me how you make those sorts of calculations. I intend to buy a unit in the next week and am really trying to make an informed decision (can you tell?) You guys must be a friend of this guy. Have you been reading his site or something? It sounds like thats what your talking about. Quality Water Associates softener sizing chart Do a search of the owner and you will see what I mean. Banned everywhere. Be careful if you are. Some people are a able to sell salt to a slug. Everyone has thier opinions though on what they feel is correct.. This is a DIY site and all posters that were looking for advice, should make you own decision. To much biased info here. Im out because of someone that might be among us..... Im not going to waste my time here. Thanks A. Mike NJ Here are a couple of articles by Chubb Michaud on achieving brine efficiency. http://www.wcponline.com/pdf/August%20Michaud.pdf http://www.wcponline.com/pdf/0202brine.pdf Keep in mind that these efficiencies will vary greatly depending on water chemistry, with iron in the water the efficiency ratings will be much lower. RJ Rjh2o, this one was the most informative thing I have read in awhile. Thanks for that. http://www.wcponline.com/pdf/0202brine.pdf Now you all might knock the kenmore units, but they perform just as this guy describes in the link above. Comparing with what he stated. Kenmores all have metered valves. Minimum water system flow (gpm) 3 Maximum clear water iron (ppm) 5 All have actual Sybron Ionac C249 resin. Not a compatable The feature on all models now is Salt Efficiency setting. When this feature is ON, the unit will operate at salt efficiencies of 4000 grains of hardness per pound of salt or higher. Amount of resin (cu ft) .80 ( I dont even have 1 cft. I am 5 people 2 bath home.) Regeneration cycle times (minutes) Fill 2 - 10 Brining / brine rinse 106 - 110 ( 2 hour brine time ) Backwash 7 Fast rinse 3 Total regeneration time 119 - 129 Efficiency Rating 5060 @ 2.4 lb salt Max. Drain Flow Rate (gpm) 1.8 Everthing That guy stated I compared above with my unit. I tell you that my softner regens once a week, and I still have softwater before the regen starts. I dont have 1 cft of resin. I am oversized if anything. I have worked on other units but personally had only kenmores in my homes. I have always been on wells with unfavorable water. I probably go through no more then 8 - bags of salt a yr. So all those calculators in my opinion are not that accurate. They usually oversize. And you can calculate all you want, but I have tested my water when I bypassed a regen. Do a test yourself. Plus these online units look good and cheap, but the resin is probably the most important. Most of these companys put garbage in them, and even if you spend extra for the fine mesh, its still a compatable at most sites. Perhaps I am used to my units function and quality of water, and the online units are the % wasters as described in your link. Fair enough?? We are all still friends right? Now I dont know everything, and I learn new things everyday. I just dont agree with some stuff stated in this thread. I base it on real world use. We all have are opinions. Most people cant tell hard water from soft when they are in the shower anyway. Most people base it on what the shower head looks like, or some sales man fudging the hardness test. Thanks for that link. It was refreshing to read it. Mike NJ Dйjа vu all over again Yogi Berra If I rent or buy a house and it has a Kenmore or similar unit I rip it out without even messing with it and put in, what I call, a real water softener. No disrespect or disrespect whichever applies. They are labeled as disposable units because when your Sears guy comes out in 2-5 years to fix it he will almost always say, You know, it's going to cost $????????? to fix this unit but for $??????? you can purchase a brand new unit with a new warranty. The customer opts for a new unit and the cycle begins or continues. If you begin with a good system to start with, you can fix it at a reasonable rate and have it for 20+ years. YES, it'll need a bit of service from time to time, but it can be fixed. Not some DIY version of fixed, but a qualified service person fixed. See him every 5-10 years for $200-$300 worth of work and you're good to go. If you actually sit down and do the math it is cheaper to buy a quality expensive unit than it is to buy Kenmore/Sears/Costco/whatever CRAP! I said it. Softenerss rarely die like a light bulb. They die a slow, convoluted death and the owners tolerance to worsening water becomes desensitized until both just give out. In the meanwhile, the damage is done. Going cheap can be very costly, I agree. Could anyone give a actual reason why these units ( kenmore..etc ) are junk? Where are they labled disposable units? Why will the sears guy come out in 2-5 yrs? Its going to cost X amount to fix it? ( Any service tech is going to charge for repair. Kinnetico, culligan, rain soft, etc..) If you go to softner parts .com the parts are all similarly priced all valve parts of all brands. If someone can tell me what actually goes wrong with these units and why they are junk, I would like to know. Mike NJ Originally Posted by lawrosa If someone can tell me what actually goes wrong with these units and why they are junk, I would like to know. Mike NJ In my experience the valve used on Sears units typically fails after considerably shorter service time than Fleck or Clack valves. I have come to believe the rotary valve used on Sears units is inherently less reliable and requires more/more frequent service than Fleck and Clack valves. While I belive Fleck and Clack valves are superior I don't characterize the valves used on Sears units as junk. Thanks bob999, I think its the assumption because some techs cant work on the valves. The only failures that I am aware of is the disk gets scraches, and change the o rings. This may just not to not putting a prefilter before the equiptment which I feel all systems should have anyway. These are simple to work on. The parts for the above metioned are $80. So a DIY could repair his unit for that amount if that was indeed the cause. Most units failures are lack of brine draw. Disk and o ring replacment. Just so you see how simple it is. Softenerparts.com Seal Kit Sears, GE, NorthStar 7129716,7092163,7134224,WS35X10005 Softenerparts.com Rotor Disc Sears, GE, NorthStar 7199232, 7103964, WS26X10002 Also nozzle Venturi with Gasket is $16. So for $100 I can rebuild my whole valve. What is the common failure with the fleck, autotrols, etc and whats the repair cost for a DIY? Are all the others valves flow the same? Example, which way is the flow on service and backwash? I never knew they where different, and assumed they( brands ) all flowed the same. Mike NJ Originally Posted by lawrosa What is the common failure with the fleck, autotrols, etc and whats the repair cost for a DIY? Are all the others valves flow the same? Example, which way is the flow on service and backwash? I never knew they where different, and assumed they( brands ) all flowed the same. Mike NJ Autotrol (GE) valves have a very different design than the Fleck and Clack and I am not going to address those valves. Fleck and Clack valves have very few failures but if they do it is typically the piston and/or the seal pack. Using the same parts source as you quote and assuming a Fleck 5600 valve a rebuild kit including piston, seal pack and brine piston is $59. There are some O rings that are also recommended for replacement--$4. @Rjh2o That's informative indeed. I'm with lawrosa, the article at http://www.wcponline.com/pdf/0202brine.pdf is particularly useful as it even goes so far as to outline and efficient design that the homeowner could put into use. I'm not sure I want to go so far as to custom design a system but just to pick an off the shelf fleck unit that'll be appropriately sized for max efficiency. I'm still interested, though, in water usage. Rjh2o indicated that water usage would be higher with a low salt dose. I'm still thinking this through. Given a fixed system and fixed demand, it seems correct that higher salt dosages would result in less frequent regenerations. This would save water over running the *same* system at lower dosages. However, this isn't the same thing as comparing two *different* sized systems. System one would have greater cu ft of resin to permit infrequent regens with a low salt dose. The comparison system, system two, would have less cu ft of resin, dosed with more salt, to allow for the same infrequent regen cycles. Given this latter comparison it would seem that both systems would use similar amounts of water but system one would use much less salt. Correct? The difference in water usage, I guess, would be in the amount of water each system uses to regen the bed and backwash it - the bigger system would use more. But how much more? Would it be substantial or minimal and how might I calculate this? @lawrosa I'm not Gary Slusser but I have seen his posts and that website in my googling. I don't know enough about clack brand softeners to know if there is any truth to what he was saying. I'm planning on going with a fleck unit so it's a moot point anyway. I will say though that I've made every effort to be friendly with you and you've been nothing but hostile with me. Why? It's just a water softener. Don't get your ego so wrapped up in it. If you can show me where the math I've posted is wrong then please do so. You're exhortations to 'stop your softener from regenerating next time and see how long it continues to soften the water' are silly and anecdotal. The plural of anecdote is *not* data (hint: it's anecdotes). I'm asking you for data not your armchair hypothesizing with your kenmore unit. And I told you, I don't *have* a softener yet so I can't very well experiment with the settings on it anyhow. And if I did have the softener then I wouldn't be here asking others for advice on size it. Originally Posted by lawrosa Could anyone give a actual reason why these units ( kenmore..etc ) are junk? Where are they labled disposable units? I was wondering the same. I remember, before my GE unit, when I had a Kenmore from 1993-2010 outdoors next to the house (17 years).. I had to take apart the valve and replace a little part (gasket? o-ring?) and the motor and it cost me around $100 and I was able to do it myself. I remember when I took the control unit and valve completely apart. It was not hard to take apart and fix at all and that was my first time. So I don't have concerns about longevity and reliability whether it's the store brand or whatever brand. Even if it breaks I can fix it in a few minutes. If you're not a DIY type, then a service technician could get expensive, so I can imagine in those cases reliability would be very important. It would be nice if the Fleck and Clack valve units had a low salt indicator light because I found that to be a very helpful feature on my Kenmore unit as a reminder during those months when I got too busy and forgot to open up the lid and look inside. will say though that I've made every effort to be friendly with you and you've been nothing but hostile with me. Why? It's just a water softener. Don't get your ego so wrapped up in it. Hostile????? Where, when? I apologize if you took the implying thing as hostile. I thought I was friendly. I guess It goes back to old college classes mis-communication. Sometimes writings portray differently than face-to-face communication. Mike NJ Originally Posted by WillH I'm still interested, though, in water usage. I suggest that you need to establish the frequency of regeneration--I suggest once every 7 days as an appropriate value. Now the cubic feet of resin required can vary depending on the salt dose--one cubic foot of resin regenerated with 15 lbs of salt yields ~30,000 grains capacity. The same cubic foot regenerated with 6 lbs of salt yields ~ 20,000 grains of capacity. Obviously the salt efficiency is considerably higher at 6 lbs and I would suggest that you use 6 lbs/cubic foot or less for good salt efficiency. I think that if you approach the analysis in this way you will find that the water efficiency doesn't vary much. You might ask why regenerate every 7 days--I suggest it as a reasonable compromise between water efficiency (which tends to push you to longer intervals between regeneration), maintaining the resin, and regenerating frequently enough to avoid channeling. Originally Posted by Bob999 I suggest that you need to establish the frequency of regeneration--I suggest once every 7 days as an appropriate value. Now the cubic feet of resin required can vary depending on the salt dose--one cubic foot of resin regenerated with 15 lbs of salt yields ~30,000 grains capacity. The same cubic foot regenerated with 6 lbs of salt yields ~ 20,000 grains of capacity. Obviously the salt efficiency is considerably higher at 6 lbs and I would suggest that you use 6 lbs/cubic foot or less for good salt efficiency. I think that if you approach the analysis in this way you will find that the water efficiency doesn't vary much. You might ask why regenerate every 7 days--I suggest it as a reasonable compromise between water efficiency (which tends to push you to longer intervals between regeneration), maintaining the resin, and regenerating frequently enough to avoid channeling. @Bob999 That's pretty much my thinking and the conclusion I reached in post #16. I guess I'm still wondering if using more cu ft of resin and a lower salt dosage will have deleterious effects on my water usage. I'm having a hard time seeing how it would.
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I've heard that if a chipper does not have at least 10HP it is better left to leaves. Does anyone have experience with the Troy-Bilt 47258 Super Hawk chipper. All I know about it is it has an 8HP motor, and electric start. Can it handle 3 branches. What else can you tell me? I have an opportunity to buy a used one and would like to know. The Troy-bilt web site no longer lists it. If the current owner is saying it will cut 3 limbs, take one with you and try it. Lots more than horsepower to consider. I borrowed one (Troy-bilt) and it worked fine. Owner was not pleased with how often he had to sharpen and replace blades. I never believe all the hype on what a chipper will cut. Good luck. It probbaly won't do it to your satisfaction, but I like majak's suggestion. I had a 6hp chipper once that would barely chip a 1 stick, and I had to feed it so slowly it was a joke. Not to mention I couldn't even hold on to the stick for long because the vibration of the stick would make my hand go numb. I have an 8hp, ele,start myself. I found that after a chipper is used awhile, they will cut 3 limbs, but what you need to do is, remove the bottom cover and if the shredder is jammed with wood shreddings, clean it out, grease the bearings, if it`s has an 8hp it has grease fittings. When using the side chute,(first check to see if the chipper blades are gummed up with sap. don`t use too much pressure to where the engine bogs down, but if it doesnt cut to your satisfaction, move the limb around, say, corner to corner, turn the limb while your doing this, you`ll find a spot. TroyBuilt equipment, especially older model equipment is built strong. Also make sure the belt is in good condition and not too loose. The old Troy-Bilt Tomahawk and Super Tomahawk chipper/shredders (big box design about the size of a 3 drawer file cabinet) were made from a design by W.W. Grinder Co. who got bought out by GardenWay around 1980 +/-. I have one of the first ones sold by Troy-Bilt (still had W.W. Grinder decals on it) and it came with a 4 HP Tecumseh motor. It will do 3 branches. Can I force material in fast enough to bog down the motor and stall it? Sure can! But if I let the machine work at it's own pace, it will chip all day. The shredder hopper on the top will do up to 1 but it's happier with 3/4 and smaller. If my little 4 HP motor were to crap out on me, I'd definitely try to get a 6 or larger to replace it, but since it's been working ok as is for over 20 years I'm pretty happy with it. You won't see these on Troy-Bilt's website as MTD did not take these when they aquired GardenWay. Murray was building them for a while, but now Murray is gone too. Parts show up on Ebay pretty regular. The shredder knives are reversable to expose new cutting edges as is the chipper blade. And they can be sharpened. Also heed the advise above about cleaning off any sap or resins to improve performance. Having used mine for over 20 years, I'd definitely look for a another one if I needed to. My brother just bought a used one with a 8 HP motor and improved drive becuase he liked mine and that one became available to him. His has an engagement lever, mine had a centrifugal clutch. If you have never used one of these, the chipper chute on the side is set up so you gently push material in and it chips off the end, kinda like an electric pencil sharpener. It will never pull you towards the cutter. The shredder hopper on the top does tend to yank stuff right out of your hands, so use a loose grip and keep your distance. In my opinion, it yanked less than other types I have used and the cutters are pretty deep insidefor safety, another reason I bought mine as at the time I was also looking at Kemp and McKissic. I hope this helps you out. Hmm, maybe I shouldn't have such a bleak impression of chippers just yet. I suppose mine was just not as well designed maybe? Funny, I've worked on several chippers, but only used one. It was one I bought from a guy who came in with it for sale. Said he needed gas money, and I could have it for $10. I got it, fixed the carb, and tried it a time or two, then pulled the engine off and scrapped the rest, lol! I can't remember who made it, but it had a 6hp tecumseh on it.
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Hi Folks, I always seem to have trouble getting a good sweat connection on ball valves (or stop valves for that matter). They either leak, or I end up melting the inside seals! In the small chance that I get one that doesn't leak, the connection looks darn ugly. I'm cleaning the male pipe with fine sandpaper, and a wire brush for the valve. They're then wiped w/a clean wrag. The solder is Lenox lead-free, the flux Lenox general purpose petroleum based. The valves are BK Mueller for what it's worth, new. I always apply the most heat to the valve, about the last 3/4 of where the pipe enters. Once I see the copper blowing off a green is when I remove heat and apply solder. I've tried applying heat 1/2-1/2 between the valve and pipe, but not much difference. The problem seems to be that the valve ID is too large. I never have problems with T's and elbows that have a nice tight fit. These valves spin easily and will slip off the pipe if help upside down. The solder seems to wick between the fitting, but never comes up to the lip. The more I apply, the worse it seems to get (by that point I think I've 'poluted' the copper to where it won't stick anymore). I typically wipe the connections clean with a damp wrag to clean up the appearance. This goes against any electronics soldering that I've done, which would result in a cold solder joint, but it seems to be common with friends/co-workers. Any tips? I'm building a manifold for our service room and this is becoming a PITA (and expensive). Thanks greatly, Jamie PS - using MAPP gas 'figured a picture or two may help more than anything... slipnfall my suggestions
1. good initial setup -- the only diff. i do is use sandpaper for cleaning BOTH sides of the joint ..... 2. make sure you manual turn valve so ball/seal is not sitting against the brass when it heats up 3. apply more liberal flux to both male/female parts to solder 4. have flame on FULL FORCE -- nice strong blue flame -- hold pretty close to copper pipe (6 away max) 5. heat ONLY the copper pipe... not the valve.... 6. within 15-20 seconds it should be ready to start pulling solder inside..... just let it pull it in... don't over feed ... 7. while hot make sure you have it pulled in all around.... easy to miss the back side. good luck rf Major difference in process here: heat just the pipe huh? I'll give it a shot and let you know how it turns out! I can't see how the solder would adhere to the brass valve, but I suppose it gets hot as well. Excellant advice! It's not show quality, but the solder wicked in just as it should have. Some 'tips' that have come to mind (though these are mostly common sense). -use that wet wrag you have laying around to keep adjacent/nearby valves cool while sweating elsewhere. -to remove/replace my valves, I heated them to where they would slide off, then [re]heat the pipe and wipe as much old solder off as possible. Sand area thoroughly until you can see copper showing through. Make sure it's smooth with no bumps. Wipe away dust before re-applying flux. -watch how far down into a valve body you apply flux: where the flux goes the solder just may very well follow. On dismantling my valves I found solder all the way down to the seal!! -be sure to sand/clean/flux the faces of female fitting as well. This is that 1/16 surface area on the face of the fitting. This ensure a good concave fillet surrounding the fitting. -*do not* move valve gates while warm or hot, you'll likely muck up the seal, even on adjacent valves. Thanks kindly, Jamie I wrap the thick part of the valve itself with a wet rag, then hit the valve end with heat, playing some onto the copper pipe too. Seems to work good. For what it's worth, years ago when first attempting to sweat ball valves I got so frustrated that I switched entirely to threaded ones! Then I learned about using a hotter torch (Mapp gas) and wrapping the valve to keep it cool.
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we have installed this new boiler water heating system a little over a year ago, and we have 2 zones. one stopped working last night and some weird sound come out of the taco circulator . I purged the air out of the one that's not working, (seems quite a lot air) but it's still not working. at times,it seems to pump, but the boiler is firing for only 30 seconds or so then stop, only cold water got pumped. Anyone has any suggestions, thank you! If you have 120 volts at the circulator and it gets hot while the water is cold, either the loop is airbound or the cartridge is bad. It is easy to change the cartridge if it comes to that. Ken Thanks, Ken, the circulator is 115V. It seems to pump hot water once in a while, unpredictable. I notice when the good one's working, the boiler also heats up the water automatically, but for the one that's not working properly, the boiler is on for 30 seconds or so then stops, and will be on again at unpredictable time. It seems to me that the boiler does not always heat up water with the 'bad' pump, but it always heat water up with the good pump. What is probably happening is that the circulator has bound up, possibly from a slug of air in the system from the sounds of it. The circulator is water cooled and lubricated. Without water running through it, it will bind up and seize. If the zone is calling for heat, the thermostat is sending its signal to the circulator and the boiler to run. When the boiler fires up, it will shut down quickly if there is no circulation to take the heat away from the boiler. The temperature in the boiler will quickly rise to the Hi limit set point (typically about 190°F) and shut down. Wth the circulator not working, the piping for that zone will stay cold. Sounds like you need a new circulator and need to figure out why you have a lot of air in the system. Thanks a lot Fixitron, I'll get a new circulator. I don't know why there are so much air in the pipe, I purged long time and seemed never really get all the air out. The other zone's working fine though. I remember with the old system (the boiler at least 20 years old) we never ran into having a lot of air inside the pipes, we changed to a new boiler cause it's much more efficient and suppose 'trouble free' for at least the first few years. Check the system pressure. It should read about 12-15 psi. If it is much lower than 12 psi, your feed regulator is not working and needs to be replaced. New boilers are more efficient and trouble free.....but the system does not stop with the boiler. The system is comprised of air elimination, flow control, and system water bypass. They all need to work in concert. If you can post a picture of the boiler and piping near it, we could make suggestions for improvement if there are any. Ken Thank you both of you, Fixitron, and Ken. After purged out more air and replaced the 'bad' circulator with a new one, the system is finally up and running. Now need figure out why there are so much air in one loop, not the other. We have two zones, I also checked the other zone that's been working fine, it does not seem to have much air in it. Maybe I should purge the system more often, say every few month to prevent the circulator trap air. Once the air is out it will stay out. Adding water during purging brings in more air. If your boiler has an air elimination tapping or if you have an air scoop, make sure the automatic vent is working. Air in a water cooled circulator makes it overheat and it will fail. Ken Thanks, Ken. Hi, I would appreciate some help, I have a new furnace that was put in 3 years ago and one of the TACA circulators model # 007-F5-1IFC is making some strange noises. I'm looking to replace the part, but I can’t seem to locate that exact model #. Can I use a TACO model # 007-F5-7IFC? What eh difference between the 7IFC vs. the 1IFC? Thank you I don't know what the difference is but it can't be anything too important. We have had a few problems with the internal flow checks so I would recommend replacing the whole pump, not just the cartridge. Ken Can I use a TACA 007-F5 model? Or does it have to have the IFC int he model #? Anone know? Thanks It will need to be an IFC model. If you don't have a flow check, you will have unwanted circulation and heat will flow all the time. Ken
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I have some small holes in some trim work that I need to fill where I removed some hooks. What is the best stainable wood putty/filler to use? I've used both Famowood and 3M. Neither accepts stain to match the surrounding wood work - you have to play with it. Like George said, even tho they say stainable, they'll never match using the same stain. Many folks have mentioned getting some tubes or small cans of the pre-tinted putty, then mixing small amounts to get the right color. Or try a close color of stainable, then get an assortment of the stain markers and start with the lightest one. Sometimes you need to just let the stain dry, as opposed to apply, let set, then wipe. I have used Minwax and Dap with both of the above methods, with relative success. I may know the patched areas are there, but no one else would notice them. What Gunguysaid. I use Minwax colored pencils all the time to fill finish nails heads, Very close match. And they have putty containers in specific colors to match their stains, almost an exact match. Since wood is not a uniform thing, and exact match is impossible. While an exact match with colored putty is possible, it can be very time consuming I prefer to use color putty - after the wood is stained and sealed. Mixing up 2-3 colors of putty will get you close enough where the puttied nail holes won't show. If you're using putty (stays soft) as opposed to the Famowood type which hardens, use mineral oil to soften and mix the various tints to obtain the proper color. Mineral oil will not change the color - Linseed oil will. Thank you to everyone for all your insight!!! I really do appreciate the advice! if you are filling small nail holes look for a wax stick they are like a crayon (most hardware stores like Ace carry them) and you simply rub over the little hole then wipe off excess with a felt block or cheese cloth. Look for one that is a shade darker than your finished color as it will show less.
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Sorry for the double post... I just bought a home that is about 9 years old. It's got hardwired smoke detectors that I have not found a lot of info on the web about (They are Firex and the only identifying number on them is 120-538b). I'm pretty good with electric and just replacing them seems pretty easy. They have a load, a neutral and what I beleive to be is the common wire they all trip with. My questions is this: 1) They're kinda old. Should I replace them? and 2) if I go with a newer model, say a Kidde, I should just be able to hook black to black, white to white and red/yellow to red/yellow, no? ANy suggestions? Thanks, -DaG 1) The lifespan of a smoke detector is 10 years. Yes, replace them. 2) To ensure that the interconnect works, all the ones you buy to replace them must be the same make and model. Places like Home Depot give a price break on a box of six (if you need six). There's no special trick to replace them. Just follow the directions. Be sure to turn off the breaker before you begin. You can replace the smoke detectors if you want to at this time. Firex is a common brand. Smoke detectors do need to be replaced, with the usual time being 10 to 15 years. The three wires are as you suggest, although the proper term is line, not load. The third wire interconnects the devices so that when one activates they all activate. Using the term common for the third wire may confuse some people. If you do replace them, make sure that you replace all of them at the same time with the same brand. No, I don’t mean that you have to replace them Firex, although you can if you want. What I mean is that all of the units must be compatible with each other or they may not all activate at the same time. The easiest way to have them all compatible is to buy the same make and model for every location. Yeah, my terminology may not be the best, but you understood what I meant That's kind of what I figured - thanks for the confirmation. I've got an outlet-based CO detector, and am interested, if I have to repalce the lot of them, in getting a hardwired one or 2. My equipment room is in the basement, with only 1 detector NOT inside the equipment room (in the hallway) I would definately place a CO detector there, should I also put one in the upstairs hallway (all the bedrooms have regular detectors, but a single CO in the hall should suffice, no? or is that overkill?) The only source of CO is the furnace, right? no fireplace, but a gas stove. Will one in the basement be good enough? Also, if i choose to replace them all (about 10 of them), do I need to dispose of them in any special way? Don't that have some radioactive stuff in them?? Lastly - any recomendation on a reputable brand? I have Kidee in my townhome, and am happy with them. Any one better than the other? Thanks! -DaG I have no particular brand preference. I would probably stick with a brand I have hard of rather than one I haven't, but that's me. They do make hardwired CO detectors. They even make combination CO and smoke detectors. I don’t know, however, if these units are able to be interconnected. CO detectors are recommended on every level of your house. They should be placed outside the sleeping areas and not in close proximity to sources of CO. CO is a byproduct of combustion. This means that your furnace (gas, oil, or propane), your fireplace, your gas dryer, and yes even your gas stove/oven produce CO. (The amounts produced by your stove are minimal.) CO mixes very easily with air (which is one reason it's problem). For this reason CO detectors do not need to be placed on or near the ceiling like smoke detectors do. do these hardwired detectors typically require a J box with each? Or direct wired or?? Did I read before that you should NOT use the BR AFCI to feed these? If you can, you can get a newer version of the existing smokes, that wat you jsut need pop off the old, and pop on the new, using the same mounting ring and wiring connector usually. Bedroom smokes count for AFCI requirement. When you rough in, you use a standard round/octagon light box. They need a J-Box like any other line connected equipment. Originally Posted by telecom guy Did I read before that you should NOT use the BR AFCI to feed these? This is a local issue. Here are some of the common codes I have heard for different regions: 1) Smokes must be on an AFCI circuit. 2) Smokes may be on an AFCI circuit. 3) Smokes must be on a dedicated circuit 4) Smokes must be on a circuit with a commonly used light fixture. As you can see, this varies a lot as some areas require what others explicitly prohibit. My personal preference is to follow #2 and #4, but it's entirely up to your AHJ as the NEC specifies #1. The NEC requires AFCI for bedroom smoke detectors. So, if you live in the U.S., and if you are rewiring your bedroom or for new construction, and unless your area has specifically modified this requirement, smoke detectors in bedrooms must be AFCI protected. Of course, if you're just replacing one smoke detector with another and not rewiring the bedroom, your non-AFCI circuit is grandfathered. And since all smoke detectors must be interconnected, your non-bedroom smoke detectors will end up being AFCI protected too. I didn't find a direct cross reference for your model . The important consideration for replacement of interconnected alarms is the interconnect voltage. Older systems used the line voltage; newer ones used low voltage. If you replace ALL your alarms, it doesn't matter. You might need to install the new pigtail which will be included. The only current Firex which uses line voltage interconnect is the model 0428. If necessary, call Maple Chase (InvenSys) @ 800-304-3563. They will tell you what unit is compatible. Again, if you install ALL NEW units, which is definitely recommended, it doesn't matter. According to the NFPA, of all smoke alarms 10 years old, less than 50% will be operational. Thanks for all the replies. The home is about 9 years old and has hardwired smokes. Poking around the breaker box, I found the breaker for the circuit. I'm going to assume that since it's a development, and all the houses were built by the same company, they are to code and all interconnected. Personally, I like companies that have websites that you can download info from. Kidde is one such company and if anyone has any negative feedback, please let me know. The smokes have a 3 wire snap in connector that I'm going to guess is proprietary to Firex. I will probably head down to Home Cheapo and pick up a contractor pack and coupla CO smokes as well. I have the Kidde's that talk now, so maybe if I'm feeling lonely, I'll hack it and make it talk dirty to me. Thanks again for the feedback! I did not see an answer to your question about disposal. Smoke detectors do contain a small amount of radioactive material and should be disposed of properly. Check with your local landfill people. When you use a combination CO/smoke detector in each hallway (of the same brand as the other interconnected smoke detectors), if one of them senses CO and alarms, then all of your interconnected detectors will also alarm, usually with a different sound than for the alarm for smoke.
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I have not found any information about which caulk is better, sanded or unsanded for filling the joints of vertical walls in shower surrounds. In our shower, the contractor apparently used grout and now when the weather has turned cooler, the joints have small cracks. What kind of caulk I need to use to fill these cracks. Any information will be greatly appreciated. Thanks I'm not sure that the smooth versus sanded makes any difference in how it will hold up, it's mostly a 'look' difference. It might be easier to force regular latex caulk into the cracks if you don't intend to remove the grout. I'm not a tile guy but I think the corners are usually caulked. Some of the tile guys should be along later. If the joist is 1/8 or bigger, use sanded color matching, or just color matching silicone. This forum requires that you wait 180 seconds between posts. Please try again in 2 seconds. What hot said. But joints between dissimilar materials, and adjoining walls will not support grout for long, too much movement. Colored grouts are easily available, in unsanded or sanded. Use sanded for larger than 1/8 gaps. The sand is a binder. Thank you guys for the information. I forgot to mention that the joints I was talking about are the corner joints between two tiled walls. I do not want to remove the existing grout and fill the cracks using caulk. From your responses, I understand that I can use either sanded or unsanded caulk. They make sanded and non sanded caulk to match the texture of sanded and non sanded grout. What kind of grout do you have, sanded or non sanded? As has been pointed out to you, those joints should not have been grouted. Best bet is to remove the grout and replace it with caulk that is color matched to the grout. Thank you for the advice. I will remove the grout from the joint and use a smooth caulk to fill the joint. Appreciate all the advice.
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